The Louis Pasteur of Junkiedom ([info]calamityjon) wrote,
@ 2007-06-19 11:20:00
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Entry tags:superman theory

A friend of mine was asking me, the other day, about the Superman Family, and the plethora of Super-Boys and Super-Girls, and if there was ever a Super-Woman (There have been a few, and none of them have been any good really), and mostly he was trying to get me to help him wrap his head around Super-Dog.

"Was there really a super-dog?"
"Yep, Krypto, he was Superman's pet dog from Krypton."
"What the -? Really? Did he have super powers?"
"Sure, he was super strong, he could fly, he had heat vision..."
"Was the heat vision in black and white?"

What I ended up telling him was that you don't really have to get your head around Krypto, you need to get your head around Superboy. And what you need to know about Superboy is that his real super-power isn't that he can fly, or is super-strong, or is invulnerable, but rather that he is the boy who gets everything he ever wished for.

Superboy is a kid who loses his home and his kind, loving parents, and then immediately acquires another home and another set of kind, loving parents. Some time later, he's bemoaning that he hasn't got any sort of super-playmate with whom he can romp among the asteroid belt nor fly around the sun, and lo and behold, that very same issue, along comes his own personal pet dog from Krypton, complete with super-powers and ready to play!

He worries that his parents are so very old, and so that they can continue to care for him, they become young! He mopes that he hates lying to his friends and wishes he didn't have to hide his secret from them, and then voila, in the same story his trustworthy pal Pete Ross happens upon Clark changing into Superboy during a particularly violent storm, and becomes his secret confidante! He grumbles that he has no other super-powered teenage friends to share his burdens, and taa-daa, super-powered teenagers from the 30th century appear as if by magic!

(One of the things which used to bug me about the old Superboy series - and which did on Smallville as well - was how the younger versions of the Superman cast all made their way through Smallville eventually, meeting Clark Kent or Superboy along the way. Teenaged Lois Lane, reporter Perry White, Aqua-BOY, young Bruce Wayne and Oliver Queen, they all traipsed through Smallville at least once and made Superboy's acquaintance, long before they gathered together as adults. Now, I see that as more of Superboy's wish fulfillment, that the people he meets whom he likes are wished back into his life as he grows older).

The wishing power only works, though, when Superman is a boy, and the wishes are selfish. When it's time to become a man, when he adopts responsibilities rather than chooses to be cared for, then it doesn't work - which is one of the sadder things about Superman, and one of the reasons i like the folk components so much.

His adopted parents finally do die, at the same time that Superboy is leaving Smallville and becoming Superman. He cannot save them because he no longer wants them to live to take care of him, but to live because he loves them, and to live for themselves. For the same reasons, he can never free his friend Mon-El from the Phantom Zone, nor enlarge Kandor (I know he eventually did, but he shouldn't have had), nor marry Lois Lane (or Lori Lemaris, or Sally Selwyn, or so on), and really should never be able to have children, because these are all wishes for the safety and happiness of others, and that he has to fight for, and ultimately fight for them only to fail.

So, you know, that's kind of neat.



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[info]dryponder
2007-06-19 06:24 pm UTC (link)
haha, very interesting.

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[info]hooper_x
2007-06-19 06:28 pm UTC (link)
that's fuckin' heavy. i like it.

-hx

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[info]calamityjon
2007-06-19 06:40 pm UTC (link)
Thanks. With Superman and the other comic book heroes who have some sense of folk background, I like to look at their entire storyline as a monomythic cycle. I'M LIKE THAT.

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[info]hooper_x
2007-06-19 08:51 pm UTC (link)
Yeah. I think the character's origin as adolescent wish-fulfillment really is the crux of things - Superman, sure, everyone wants to do that shit, but SuperBOY, he's targeted at the pre-pubescent set. He's Kid Superman, and despite being objectively stronger and tougher than everyone around him (and probably, in the Golden Age, at least, smarter), he's still a little kid, which means he's Super-Lonely and Super-Bored and Super-Irritated at how lame his parents are (even though he could kill the shit out of them, he doesn't) and so on.

All the standard little kid bitch topics, but Super.

-hx

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[info]tiki_monkey
2007-06-19 06:30 pm UTC (link)
Is that like Chewbacca and R2D2 as the true leaders of the Rebellion?

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[info]calamityjon
2007-06-19 06:40 pm UTC (link)
It's more like that R2D2/Chewbacca slash fiction I wrote.

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[info]blake_reitz
2007-06-19 06:56 pm UTC (link)
hot.

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[info]tiki_monkey
2007-06-19 07:14 pm UTC (link)
beep!
RRAAWR!
beep!
RRROWR!
blip-beep-wrzrwrz
RRAWR!

audio version coming... eventually.

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T
[info]miraclejackson
2007-06-19 06:33 pm UTC (link)
Oh man that's a GOOD POST.

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Re: T
[info]calamityjon
2007-06-19 06:40 pm UTC (link)
Ha, thanks!

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[info]ludickid
2007-06-19 06:41 pm UTC (link)
This is articulate and interesting and thoughtful and one of the reasons I've never really liked Superman.

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[info]ezrael
2007-06-19 07:05 pm UTC (link)
No, it's one of the reasons you really should, though.

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You didn't like Royal Tenenbaums either, did you.
[info]calamityjon
2007-06-19 07:29 pm UTC (link)
One of these days you'll have to explain what it is about Superman that you don't like. I promise I'll underline my Batman issues at the same time.

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Re: You didn't like Royal Tenenbaums either, did you.
[info]counterfeitfake
2007-06-19 11:20 pm UTC (link)
potential batman issue

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Re: You didn't like Royal Tenenbaums either, did you.
[info]calamityjon
2007-06-20 01:10 am UTC (link)
I hate you because I thought that was going to be the dancing, muttering Adam West.

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Re: You didn't like Royal Tenenbaums either, did you.
[info]counterfeitfake
2007-06-20 06:00 am UTC (link)
but he's black y'all

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Re: You didn't like Royal Tenenbaums either, did you.
[info]revme
2007-06-19 11:57 pm UTC (link)
The funny thing is that as another Superman "Meh"-er, and Batman fan, this actually MADE me actually GET Superman a bit more. That definitely made it much more interesting. Since, for me, I tend to think of Supes as an over-powered guy who tends to be TOO perfect and TOO Godlike. It almost seems that Superman can do much of anything he wants, where Bats is just a normal dude with dead parents. Granted, an insanely wealthy, strong, be-gadgeted normal dude, but.. yeah. I couldn't ever be Superman, but I could be Batman. Kinda. OK, not really, but it's easier to pretend. Besides, I like my parents.

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Re: You didn't like Royal Tenenbaums either, did you.
[info]calamityjon
2007-06-20 01:13 am UTC (link)
I do hate that argument, although you've outlined all the reasons - he's NOT a normal human, he's a multibillionaire detective chemist gymnast martial arts master who has a crime-fighting car and a dog in a mask and - most unforgiving of all - he never fucking fails. I guess I dislike Batman for the same reason folks don't like Superman, he's essentially godlike. With one failure dogging his heels - the rather understandable inability to protect his parents from their murderer - he never fails again. Bugs me. I like Daredevil a lot more.

The thing with Superman is the difference between reading him in individual stories and reading him as a folk character - deadline and gimmick oriented writers, or just plain bad writers, crafted these stories free of conflict or charge. Superman as a character is pretty amazing, because he is the constant lesson of humility and human suffering ...

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Re: You didn't like Royal Tenenbaums either, did you.
[info]revme
2007-06-20 01:28 am UTC (link)
That's true -- the failure thing is pretty much a downside to, well, both. There's been a very small handful of Batman stories I can think of where Batman comes close to failing and it's usually one of those things where by failing he gets to REALLY kick ass in the end.

I am also sort of torn on Bats' "I will not kill ever" thing (even though in the early ones, man, look out!), since in real life, I'm pretty anti-death penalty and whatnot, but you have to admit, a whole hell of a lot of people would be spared if Batman just killed the Joker instead of sending him back to Arkham where he is able to constantly escape and/or be released. But that's the grand thing about living in a melodramatic world. (To beat someone to the punch: Yes, I know about the Batman Beyond story/film thingy where it turned out that Bats DID kill the Joker, but accidentally and it fucked him up hardcore and yes, it was awesome.)

But yeah -- I can see what you mean in terms of Folk Character though. And, well, hm. I don't think Bats really has that kind of thing. His Conflict and Whatnot is much more superficial, meaning it translates better into Even Hackery, just because all you need to do is go "HEY! PARENTS! DEAD!!" and there you go.

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Re: You didn't like Royal Tenenbaums either, did you.
[info]calamityjon
2007-06-20 02:15 am UTC (link)
Here's what I'd like to see done with Batman's No-Kill policy; an examination of his restraint as an acknowledgment that, IF he ever kills an enemy deliberately, he can NEVER go back to being Bruce Wayne ever again. He'll always be Batman, he'll never heal from his wounds, and he'll never be done.

I actually see Batman as the character most likely to off himself if he were to step over the line...

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Re: You didn't like Royal Tenenbaums either, did you.
[info]revme
2007-06-20 10:29 pm UTC (link)
That would actually be really, really interesting. Would it be a situation where he'd out himself as Bruce Wayne, but never go back to that persona, or would Bruce just sort of disappear/suicide himself while batman continues on with the Battin' Around? But yes... I could see that as a definite possibility.

OH: Speakin' of nothin' in particular -- hate to bring it up, but are we still on for the Kittysneezes design thingy? Is there anything you need from me/other stuff? Just lemme know! thanks!

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[info]ezrael
2007-06-19 07:07 pm UTC (link)
You know, I'd really love to sit down with you and just chew the shit about the whole Superman thing sometime.

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[info]calamityjon
2007-06-19 07:29 pm UTC (link)
I'm really eager to discuss the Superman/Lori Lemaris love story today. Also, man, I think that might officially be the podcast no one would ever listen to ...

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[info]andrewhickey
2007-06-19 07:42 pm UTC (link)
I'd listen to it...

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[info]lesmcclaine
2007-06-20 05:07 am UTC (link)
I would listen to it twice.

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[info]archaica
2007-06-19 07:21 pm UTC (link)
That's really interesting!

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[info]fiduch
2007-06-19 08:26 pm UTC (link)
that sort of constant deus ex machina is the main reason that i don't enjoy most pre-1980's comics. i know it still pops up now-and-then, but at least now they make some effort at justifying it as opposed to spontaneously introducing miraculous, plot-rectifying elements or characters.

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[info]calamityjon
2007-06-19 08:29 pm UTC (link)
...

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[info]fiduch
2007-06-19 08:33 pm UTC (link)
what??

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[info]arctangent
2007-06-20 05:01 am UTC (link)
...Infinite Crisis, my man, Infinite Crisis. Let's just not go there.

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[info]fiduch
2007-06-20 05:50 am UTC (link)
well, i didn't say it was completely dead. :op

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[info]jedibugs
2007-06-19 10:10 pm UTC (link)
Okay, while the monomythical nature of the entire arc of selfish wish fulfillment turning into altrustic disappointment makes for an intriguing and somewhat tragic Superman, it also adds to my intense, long-standing hatred of Superboy. There's very little to like about him without thinking about how incredibly selfish and whiney he is.

HATE. HATE HATE HATE.

Also, I am so excited to see an LJ Superman v Batman shootout with you and Leonard.

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[info]calamityjon
2007-06-20 01:14 am UTC (link)
Honestly, I don't like Superboy all that much, either. I've been reading comics since I was four, and it took me this long to come up with this stuff ...

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[info]darkwaterfrey
2007-06-20 02:08 am UTC (link)
um...what about STREAKY...the super-cat?

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[info]calamityjon
2007-06-20 02:15 am UTC (link)
What about him?

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[info]orrin
2007-06-20 03:18 am UTC (link)
Y'know, I think I have just now realized that I don't actually like Batman. I like Batman comics well enough, and I think his villains are fun, but Batman I could take or leave. By the same token I actually like Superman just fine, it's Superman comics that I tend to dislike.

THANK YOU CALAMITY JON FOR TEACHING ME THESE THINGS LONG AFTER I'VE STOPPED REGULARLY READING COMIC BOOKS!

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[info]orrin
2007-06-20 03:25 am UTC (link)
... and actually, that's probably not even true. What's probably true is that I think that I like Batman comics well enough when in fact I just think he has a kind of neat outfit, and his villains are cool, and a had a good cartoon show there for awhile that I used to watch.

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[info]saikoutron
2007-06-20 08:15 am UTC (link)
This is awesome stuff man! Now you simply must incorporate the real effects of kryptonite into that whole theory of yours.

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[info]calamityjon
2007-06-20 05:47 pm UTC (link)
GAWDAWMMNIT YOU PEOPLE, WOULD YOU PLEASE GIVE ME SOME FRAME OF REFERENCE?


Sorry, you're the third guy with "Okay, now what about 'Z'?" and I'm, like, "I dunno, what ABOUT 'Z'?" What is the "real effect of kryptonite" meant to mean? Like, as in it being something akin to the Celtic Geas, or the vulnerability of Balder, or part of the advocacy of death emodied in the abandoned home, als wie Gilgamesh? There's a lot of ways that can go.

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[info]saikoutron
2007-06-21 02:24 am UTC (link)
ah, them`s the trials of genius right there;D

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